Adultification.
Someone once told me something... it went like this:
"Thats part of being an adult. You make rational judgements. You consider the impacts of what you are doing. You analyze the outcomes. You resist instantaneous gratification, for the long term good."
To which I internalize something like this:
Screw that.
Seems to me that your definition of being an adult means you must be a pompous bastard. Someone so full of their own knowledge and experience, that they believe they know enough to rightfully predict the future. Someone who is over-confident in their worldview. Someone who has lost the ability to *challenge* their own notions of the way the world works.
Someone who is scared.
Scared of going out there and "failing" because they either have a notion of failure, or arent confident enough in themselves to adapt and overcome. Scared of going with their feelings instead of their thoughts.
Someone who does not believe that perception and internalization can be changed. Who does not realize that there is nearly scientific proof of this. And hasnt taken the time to reason it out, through a modicum of knowledge on neuroscience and basic brain functioning.
Someone who takes what society spoonfeeds them, and assimilates. Who doesnt challenge the notions of normalcy. Someone who doesnt want to *be* their own person. Whatever that means.
I could say so much in response to that. But I will just sum it up with ...
Someone who I dont really want to be.
So good luck with you on that one. I refuse to be an adult in your eyes.
And it drives me crazy every time I feel like I flitter towards that person's defintion. It makes me hate that me.
Cause its just not right.
Comments
I submitted a QotD which was never used along the same lines: "When did you first realize you were an adult (or have you) and why?" I would've loved to see those answers.
I had my realization a few weeks ago when I was on my hands and knees with bleach and sponge painstakingly cleaning the bathtub and tiles.
My definition is a little different than yours ;D
Im not sure I have a definition of being an adult.
But I do have a good idea what most people seem to think it means. And that it sucks.
You seem to be bristling, Jayd, which given that your behaviour as you describe it makes you fee as if you are going against your strongly-held beliefs, makes sense.
I think it's important to keep a fluid train of thought about many things. OTOH, I believe some things are immutable and there's really no choice but to act as an "adult" as in adulthood there are many obligations that we commit to. Paying our rent on time, showing up for work, paying our cable or cellphone bills, keeping some food in the house--these are all examples off what a responsible adult does.
But I don't think being adult "has" to mean that one conforms to a degree beyond these type of day-to-day neccesary-to-get-along-things. It sort of sounds like that whatever fired up up to write this goes beyond the everyday stuff though I may be reading you wrong..
I dont think they are immutable at all.
You always have choices, and there will be outcomes based upon those choices. You do not have to pay those bills, but you could find yourself without something. However, if you are prepared to deal with that consequence, then by all means ... it is not required. They are only perceived as necessary, because of the ingrained notion that your current world is the "desireable" world. Thus the natural tendency is to internalize them as immutable.
Alternatively, if you want to get "creative" with it, you also have outcomes to deal with. And so on.
Those werent really the things I was talking about though. And I think those have really nothing to do with adulthood, as you can teach that kind of responsibility to a child.
However, accepting those as immutable is the first step towards the kinds of things I was talking about. Because its a snowball effect.
And soon enough, some guy finds himself in a dead end job that doesnt make him happy enough to do anything with his family besides ignore them as they watch TV. Instead ... of just taking a risk, not paying his mortgage for a month, while he transitions into a job that is better in the long run.
And similar other things. The possibilities are endless, when you adjust your world view.
And lets be clear here. If you have a year to live (which we all might, who knows!) people tend to drop those kinds of assumptions on immutability quickly. Why?
Cause they dont really mean jack.
And off the soapbox... thanks for commenting. Its always a pleasure to read what you have to say :)
Thank you! :) I enjoy what you have to say as well. You provoke thought--a welcome talent, IMO.
It's hard for me to play devil's advocate (you must conform or die!) because I could give examples of mounds of times that I've just damned the consequences. And though mellowing with age-- I believe I still qualify as a nonconformist.
I am a risk taker--just ask any passenger in my Mustang GT. But they are calculated risks. I'm only willing to risk so much. Because even if I damn the consequences I still have to live with them. :/
Utimately, one great thing about being an adult is that it's your choice. Freedom, baby!
So, I agree, you would and could lose the childhood being inside you as you grow up if you don't think out of the box or end up conforming or, as you have said and explained, being like the person you talked about at the beginning of your peice. But being childlike of mind nowadays, as an "adult" has much more potential to be dangerous on so many levels........
Wonderment, curiosity, innocence, fun.........just a small mix of the things that make up our childhoods and as adults we CAN still have all that. I am 35 and still feel no different in my mind to when I was 18! But I am very much more aware of the consequences of my actions and words than I ever was.........
Political jab in Three ... Two ... One ... So then President Bush and America are children in the eyes of the world. :)
Joking aside.
Paradoxically enough, thinking outside of the box *requires* that you question your own definitions of "responsible" and the ramifications of thinking outside the box.
One potential pathway for philosophical exploration is a direct response to your thoughts on the difference between childhood and adulthood. Are the baseline consequences of the actions for a child that much different than from that of an adult? Or is it that society is more forgiving of the child, and thus the *applied* consequences are different?
An extreme example - if a child shoots and kills a man, it he any less dead than if an adult does it?
In my experience, selfish beings are only difficult to deal with when you do not accept that they are inherently selfish. When you do not *plan* for them to be their selfish selfs. That is, when you expect or want more from them - for whatever reason. They are not inherently bad, if you just accept and deal with them as they are. (More difficult in practice than I theory, I know). This is inherently what people do with children. But not always the case with adults.
The first problem with a portion of the Butterfly Effect, is that it is indeterminably hard to predict the entire consequence scope that results from your actions. At best, you might get two levels deep. "Adults" are still humans. They still have flaws. And they still have limited capacities to deal with the sheer volumes of raw data out there (that comprise the "Truth").
The second problem with it is that well, to be honest ... when it comes right down to it, the only person some people you really can count on 100% is yourself. You can only be truly responsible for yourself. You can only truly trust yourself. Not your friends, not your family. Just you.
This sets up a situation where your impact on others is weighted downward in your decision making process (for most people). There might be certain circumstances where this weighting is negated or neglible. But across time and situations, it still exists.
If you do not feel this way, then you should consider yourself fortunate enough to have lived a life where experiences do not push you towards this conclusion. In truth, you have luckily found yourself amongst people who *make* you feel this way. Not everyone can say that, sadly enough.
And as a side note. To be clear - although I think these things, I do not believe that I go around being selfish about everything. Maybe not even being "self-centered", although some people have claimed that I am. (I put forth that perhaps the fact that I appear that way around/to them is a direct reflection on them or the situation.).
In truth, I feel that I do try to be very giving to others. I tend to consider the golden rule when interacting with others (although this does not always results in the "right" behavioral expression). I have done lots of small things for other people. Lots of large things. A fair bit of self-sacrifice. Probably moreso than most people I know.
But I am only human. And when push comes to shove ... I really do have to look out for myself. No one else is.
Anyway, I digress tangential. Thanks for posting your thoughts. They are always welcome here! You always strike up such interesting conversations :)
Haha!
And I totally refer to a post I made a whiles back.
Cheers Jay, thanks for you kind words! I tend to write in a stream of consciousness, which gets me in trouble sometimes, but its rarely structured, so I am glad I provoke your thoughts!
As for what you have said, I am not necessarily going to take issue with you, just maybe put a different slant on something that struck me from your comment.
You say that it is very difficult to determine the ramifications of your actions and that you might only get "two" levels deep if you predict the consequences. Well, this may, in practice be totally correct, but can you live by this rule, disecting and figuring out action to that level? Probably not. No-one does, certainly not on a conscious level and if they do, you are certainly an enlightened person. But you CAN limit the consequences of your actions. Ok, that encompasses a whole load more and a can of worms is opened right there! But it does mean that if you are just as "good" a person you can be (and in agreement with you, it CAN mean being selfish to get a reward), then you won't cause anguish, pain or hurt to anyone consciously. And thats an important bit. Conscious actions and consequence. We can't say children are simple, that would be unfair. But natural childhood developement means that we are fundamentally made up in a completely different way mentally when we get older and a lot of what a child does is done without prior thought to consequence. The same could be said of adults, but the depth of the consequence, the severity, the importance of the consequence is that much more deeply recognised by and adult than a child and maybe that is the crux of the matter when it comes to being an adult............and maybe, by a slight of your definition, this would be manifested as "selfishness" in children. I could be wrong in peoples perception.........
You're right.......a really interesting conversation! Cheers!
Your reaction seems...oddly reactionary.
The mathematician Jacobi famously said "Invert, always invert." So let's invert the substance of the statement (dropping the "adult" part) and see if you agree with this behavior:
-- Make irrational judgements.
-- Don't consider the impacts of what you are doing.
-- Don't think about the outcomes.
-- Go for instantaneous gratification, no matter the long term consequences.
I can see why you would say this. I think it is either a fault of text communication, or my choice of details provided via his part.
I think what it comes down to, is everything leading up to his statement. For lack of better example, this guy is the epitome of someone who follows his head and not his heart.
Literally spoken, your inversion has a point. Its just the subtleties that are missing.
Iverting his "theme" would yield:
-- Make judgements because they are based in belief, not overly thought out inference. These are rational.
-- Consider impacts that are many levels deep in the chain of possibilities. Do not believe that you have proof of which will be the result.
-- Think about all potential set of outcomes, based upon what you believe given the specific situation at hand instead of generalization.
-- Go for short term or instantaneous gratification that can potentially lead to nothing or good long-term outcomes. Because you just do not know what situations will be like 3 years from now.
All of which I basically agree with.
As far as the specific subject in question which brought it up originally. I was correct. He was incorrect. This is not always the case. But I am prepared to deal with that when it comes.
And even literally. I still maintain that some of the best things that have ever happened to me have been things that people have said "That is an irrational decision to make", at the precise moment I was making it. And sometimes I have even felt the same while I was making it - it might be irrational. But it feels like the correct thing to do.
And I did it anyway. Looking back, I am so glad I did.